I don't think that UnderOathFreak meant to sound that way. It certainly could be taken that way and there probably is some frustration in it, but I agree with him: the concept of not distributing what doesn't belong to you isn't complex.

It really just boils down to this: just because a musician or a record label passes out stuff does not mean we can do the same. They own the rights to the music; we do not. When we purchase a CD or download a song, we are buying the right to listen to it, not the right to it. We own a copy of the song/album/whatever, but we do not own this intangible thing called a right to do what we want with it.

"Don't burn music to give to others. Don't lend CD's for others to do the same thing. If you sell a CD, delete it from your computer." I'm not telling anyone to do these things, I'm just saying that the law says, and that is not up for debate. Do with that information what you will before the Lord.
    

Do you not see that both are stealing? Illegal downloading and burning/copying a CD to give to someone else are the same thing. Downloading involves taking a song that you haven't paid for and the artist receives no money for; burning a CD to give someone a copy of it (regardless of the reasons!) is giving them songs they did not pay for and the artist gets no money for, right? Both are theft, both are wrong, both are sinful.

Does that help a little?


    

Does anyone remember a time before music could be downloaded at all? I remember a time not too long ago when I was a kid running to the radio to try and tape the song "shine" so I didn't have to wait until the radio played it. I guess that was illegal too...

If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. I found it to be rude and condescending, even if you aim it at no one in particular; it offended me. Not so much that you vented how you felt, but the way you did it, and the lack of remorse, which puts you in a bit of a situation since you want to talk about breaking laws and rules so much. "Love one another...", "Speak the truth in love" etc.

    

Hi guys,

This is a hot topic; it's a very passionate and important subject for me personally, and I enjoy reading about it and discussing it. I really hope I've stopped short of hurting someone's feelings or embarrassing anyone; it's my goal to always be compassionate and loving, and to honor my Lord and Savior in my words, thoughts, and actions. Since this is a community where (mostly) Christians gather, I'd sincerely hope the same thing applies for every one of us here. Remember the written word is a two-dimensional medium and can sometimes be misconstrued. It's no one's fault, per sé, but if a brother or sister in Christ says, "Hey, your comments hurt me.", then I should think it would be important to clear that up.

Having said that, let's remain respectful here, please. Like I said, it's a hot topic with even some followers of Christ clearly divided on this issue.

Thanks.

    Well, by your own admission you don't care how some one may have taken your comment, saying it's not your problem, but since we are pointing out wrongdoing here...your dead wrong about that. I expressed offense at your comment as well as your tone which continues to be of the condescending nature. That offends me and you wouldn't know that unless I told you, so I did.

I admit that I am still struggling with the mix cds being illegal. Why take all the joy out of making that perfect mix for a friend to lift up their day? Still working through that one.(the bigwigs discovered that money was to be made from the single downlaod and the rest is history I suppose) I understand and agree that downloading an album you didn't buy from the internet or the library is illegal. Many of my comments were made in jest as a sort of devils advocate and for that I am sorry to have put any flame on an already hot issue. I hope you realize I wasn't intending to be argumentative but only genuinely seeking to work through this. Your response kinda threw me off, and I felt I should atleast find out if you meant it the way it sounded, which you've confirmed that you did.

I do think that we should be able to discuss topics like this in a civil manner and hope to continue to be able to in the future. Please keep in mind though as you come to a thread like this, and as you respond to me and others in this thread in the manner that you have, that you could/will push people further in the opposite direction. Speaking the truth in love is a hard thing to do I realize because the truth hurts and offends the offender, but if we are going to err, we should err in love don't you think?

I can see why burning CDs would be illegal, but to me it is often beneficial to the artist. For example, if you're burning a CD for a friend, if they like it, often times they'll buy it anyway, and the artist WILL get money for it, and if they don't, they wouldn't have bought the CD anyway so it doesn't really hurt the artist. Most of the money from CD sales goes to the label, not the artists, anyways, so its the congolmerates and big labels getting most of the money from the sales and I could care less if they are ten dollars less rich because of it.
That may have come out wrong, but it's how I feel about it most of the time. Most of the mix CDs my friends have given me have tracks from artists that I normally wouldn't buy albums from anyway, so it doesn't seem to be hurting them that much. I know it's still somewhat wrong, but in some ways its only hurting the labels.
    

Haha, I had this same conversation with a friend the other day. Those big bad record labels are en-titled to the money. Just because they may not necessarily need it, they still have the right to it. Burning cds for other people is still wrong. The rich get richer, it's the way it is sometimes. No one has the right to manufacture something for another person's use, when that item is under copyright.
    

Curious to know why that is? We don't need the details of course, but every person who calls himself a follower of Christ is fully accountable to Him at all times, correct? We want to walk in obedience to Him always. If you are going through a difficult time in your life right now, allow God to come in and help you through it. However, no offense but I can't see that it is an excuse not to be in the will of God, or not do what is right - morally, ethically, legally, and spiritually.

    

I just read an article regarding illegal downloading and how it is actually helping music sales. I guess there was a survey done in November. According to the survey it found out that those who admitted that they illegaly downloaded music actually spent around $128 a year on music. That is compared to about $55 for those who claimed they never illegally downloaded music. It was pretty intresting. I'm not for it or anything but it's just another way of looking at it. Seems that those who do the downloading illegally are doing it to determine if an album is good. I think it would benefit bands and labels more if more of them put up album streams on thier websites or like right here on JFH for christian music. I would post the link for the article but I found it on a secular music web page.

True but all it was saying is that even thou people are downloading music illegaly are still buying cd's. Which then disproves the music industries theory that downloading is hurting music sales.

I don't know who puts the music up on these sites but I would think it would be someone at the company or affiliated with the band. I still think one of the things more labels should do is allow more album streams. Here at JFH they only play 30 second clips which sometimes isn't enough to entice someone to buy an album. Now if a whole album was put up to listen then it could be a better barometer. I know another site I frequent puts up streams of more independant bands and it helps me determine if it is worth buying or not.

Once again, that disproves no such thing. The music enthusiast who spends $128 dollars per year would do one of two things if he didn't download illegal music.

    1. Not spend anymore on music than he already does
       and therefore not obtain any more music than $128
       will buy.
    2. Pay for the songs he would have downloaded
       illegally and spend more than he already does
       on music.

The person who downloads illegal music can not have a positive effect on music sales and plausibly might not do anything at all, but for the most part it will hurt music sales.

Let's say half the people who buy legal music only will spend an additional $20 per year, and half will not spend more than they already do. That's an average of $10 loss to record companies per person per year. Clearly, downloading illegal music can only hurt music sales.

^^^^^
A good number of bands have full album streams on Myspace.