This interview took place on: 6/6/04.
John Cooper: Yeah, '96 is when our first record came out... So many things keep you going but there
are those times when you're like, "Man, I don't really know if I want to do this," y'know? "It's hard" or "It's exhausting"
The thing is, that's really hard, is when you don't see yourself getting any bigger and you don't feel like you're gaining
any ground. There's not a lot of light at the end of the tunnel like it won't be this hard next year, and it kind of
continually is year after year. So luckily we have been able to see some growth and there's always that hope that "things will
go really good next year -- maybe we can get a bus?" That was a big deal, y'know? We were in a van for five years and it was
really hard cause you're driving yourselves all night long... And then you finally get to the place where you get a bus
and it's so great. Then you're like, "OK, we really need to get a driver!" *laughs* And obviously what the biggest thing is
just what you feel you're supposed to be doing, what you feel called to be doing. During those times, for Korey and I,
we would kinda feel like we could quit and be happy right now. And that's not, as we'd pray about it, what we felt we were supposed
to do. It has always been really clear to us that we were supposed to keep going. So obviously, that's the biggest reason you do
anything. But I want to say, without some of the changes that have been occuring in recent times for Skillet, I think I'd
just pretty much be burned out and ready to quit. *laughs* JfH: Yeah, I've been running the site for about eight
years now and we're still pretty small, so I can kind of relate to the frustration in that... Yeah, it can be frustrating
sometimes. And sometimes it's weird cause in the Christian market, it's a different kind of animal than just plain music.
And it can be the case that, in the right situation, it'll be easier for newer bands to do really well and better than you
because of lots of different variables that might not apply to the mainstream music world. You start asking yourselves,
"Man, are we just no good? Are we just not very good if people aren't buying our records?" It's difficult, y'know?
John: You know what? I have no idea, actually. I never really know where it's going to take us. And
I never would've thought it would've taken us all the places that it has -- just playing music and writing and evolving --
I never would've thought all those changes would have happened. In the moment they felt right. So I can't really say "for good,"
but I love the new sound on the new record. I think it's our best sound, our most marketable sound for sure. And I'm really
enjoying it but it's hard to say. I wouldn't be surprised if we added more of that in.
Well, of all the ways that it's really affected us, it's a lot harder. Being on the road is so much more work
with a baby. *yawns* Cause you're constantly having to work around her schedule. And typically, we play late and
we get to bed really late. We usually get in bed by 1 or 1:30 and then she's up at 7 everyday. It's just so tiring.
You get up in the morning, and you turn on her little thing she likes to watch and you're just sitting there like
"Omigosh, I'm so tired!" And then you do it again that night. So that's really the only thing.
I wouldn't really say it affects us much in another way, but the band certainly has a real family atmosphere. And
the band members really love my daughter Alex a lot. And typically the situation could not be that way and could
be where the band's always worrying about having to be considerate for this baby, not watching movies really
loud at night or not do this... It could potentially get a little bit weird like that but everybody in Skillet is really
great with her. It's just like a big family. We're pretty lucky in that way for sure!
It'd be really different for everyone. For me... *yawns, followed by group laughter* Excuse me! At least it's
not video. *laughs* Our song "Savior" obviously just got released so this is really the first time ever I've been listening
to mainstream radio all the time only to hear my song. *laughs* I don't know if that's cheesey, but it's the truth. So really
for the first time in my life I've been listening to a load of just radio. I've never really listened to the radio before. And
I find it really interesting that already my tastes are changing. You know how you hear a song and you don't love it
but after you hear it like 30 times you begin to kind of like it. But I'm still really into hard rock, but I don't
listen to a ton of it, cause I don't love a ton of the new bands. I like P.O.D.'s Satellite record a lot,
I think it's awesome. There's really hardly any Christian rock bands I think I'd listen to, honestly. It's not that
I don't like them, I just don't happen to listen to them, y'know? I mean I like Pillar and Kutless and Jonah33 - bands
like that I like. I don't really buy a lot of those records for some reason. I do buy a lot of real pop type music like
Enya and stuff like that. Really ethereal type music. I enjoy listening to that in my house when I'm doing stuff. It's easy.
There's probably loads of bands who have influenced it a little bit. I don't really know how they did but they did. I would
probably say bands like P.O.D. -- we don't even really sound like that, but I think it's just the rock side of what we do.
The fact that it's unashamedly rock and even metal a little bit. Bands like that -- Linkin Park -- even though I don't
think we really sound like that... I really like how they don't have any inhibitions about being a rock band. And I think
that's what some of our electronic shift was about. In '97, if you were a grunge rock band, y'know, you just need to
go away! *laughs* I remember when that second Bush record came out, because that first record was so big, and I remember
hearing their singles like every minute on the radio. And I remember just one week they completely shut off, not playing anymore
Bush, not playing anymore Candlebox, y'know, all those groups. I love that music but there was a lot of fear that if we
put out another record like our debut, it's just gonna tank because it just wasn't selling -- especially in the Christian
market. Grammatrain wasn't doing good... JfH: See, I love both of those records - Lonely House
and the first Skillet record. Alright!! I picked them up when they first came out. Yeah! The first Grammatrain record's cool!
I just really liked that style. I still have a guilty pleasure of listening to both of those records.
I like it too, but I was just realizing this wasn't gonna go in the Christian market. So we just made the decision to change
it. Now we weren't planning on changing like we did... *laughs* that was all kinda... all about studio. But the real heavy rock
bands... I've never been a big Creed fan, but I can say influence in terms of the fact that they're really not ashamed to do
what they do. They were a grunge band that came after grunge and they still did good and wrote great songs.
And now everybody's copying them. And now everybody sounds like Creed, right? So I can't
really say specifically, but I would say definitely my two favorite rock albums in the last several years was P.O.D's
Satellite and Linkin Park's first record. That was just a bad record... in a good way. *laughs*
Such and awesome record, man. I hate rap but I liked that record. *laughs*
Yeah, "Open Wounds" was basically because we did this deal with Lava Records and Ardent wanted to release the album to the
Christian market in November. We wanted to wait and release both at the same time in February, but it just didn't happen. And
it just kept getting pushed back and shelved until late April or May and because we had that extra time we thought
"Why not record another song if we've got this extra time?" *the church office answering machine goes on, nearly
drowning out John as he talks* So we went to meet people from the label, we were signed
already, and I hadn't hardly met anybody from Lava Records. And I was just gonna go up and meet with them and
meet with a songwriter and try to write with them. And "Open Wounds" basically started from a line that said
"You can't stop me from falling apart, this self-destruction is all your fault". We were talking like
that and I said "This sounds like a relationship song and I don't write 'bad' relationship songs because I
have a great releationship with my wife and it's just foreign to me." And we were talking, me and this guy Kevin,
and he said "Well what about other relationships like friendships?" And I said "No" and so we started thinking
and it just reminded me that I really had wanted to write a song on this record about my relationship with my
own Dad and how I felt growing up. And even how it's gotten better and how God's really redeemed that relationship.
And that's how it started, really. I didn't want it to be too dark, but I thought there are so many people going through what
I went through in high school, that even if it was really dark, and you can't find the Christian message in "Open Wounds,"
it's not really about that. It's about 'this is how I felt and I wanted it to end.' So it was hard for me at first. I was
praying a lot for conviction, "This song - is this about me or is this just an idea that I think can be good for someone
else?" And I ended up doing it for us and I thought, at the very least, what will happen is somebody hears it and buys
the record and hears the message from another song. But I thought, 'Is "Open Wounds" something they'll play on Christian
radio?' I don't really know. It's not about that kind of message. But I'm expecting that there will be tons and tons
of people that will be like "Man, I relate to that song so much!" It's pretty hardcore in the lyrics, but y'know...
*chuckles* I agree, and it's not hateful... Yeah, that's right. It's not rebellious, it's a hurt song.
It's not like an "I hate you"... Yeah, and I think everybody can relate to it. Yeah,
and the first line of that song -- which I didn't write, this other guy wrote it so I'm bragging on it cause
it's not my line -- is "In the dark with the music on." Man, if I would have heard that in
high school, I would have bought the record. I'd have been like 'That's me, man.' Go upstairs ticked off, y'know? *chuckles*
Even in high school, you think there's nothing else in life except for that. *laughs* It's the biggest
thing ever that you're in this argument, y'know?
Yeah, it's just basically that we're trying to depict the image of faith and fear colliding. That whole
struggle of wanting to live your life as a believer in a world that's bombarding you with fear and violence and
hate everyday. That's just basically the biggest thing, honestly. With evil and wings... it mainly just looks cool!
*laughs* But this was the idea behind it. And then the mannequin at first, I just thought really looks cool,
but it does have the image of a lifeless body and then there's a war going on.
I think really the message of this record is that you go through times of pain and times of suffering
in your life and you will be hit with being afraid in our world - even in our country in the last
few years since Alien Youth came out with the war, September 11th, and all these things.
Those things are going to happen and becoming a believer doesn't mean they won't happen to you,
you know what I mean? They're still going to happen. But, in the midst of all this turmoil and facing
all these issues, there is hope. There is a reason to live. It's not like I want this
to be a "suicide message" album in any way, I'm always just shocked at how many people I meet that
are having suicidal issues and stuff. I can't believe it! It's so foreign to me. But I meet them
all the time. So that's even in it. Despite all the things you go through, there is a hope.
Coming back to the record, there are a lot of dark songs and dark issues on the record. I do
think that this record is less of a youth group album than Alien Youth. I mean, it is
and it was supposed to be. And we really believe this record was supposed to be written for a different
audience as well. And I don't mean unbelievers, but I mean people who are going through some of those
issues. And I think the only real difference between this and a Korn record or Tool or something
like that is we do talk about some of those issues but there is an underlying hope. Like
in the song "Collide," we are talking about all these things but "there is something deep inside
that keeps my faith alive." That kind of thing you don't hear on those other albums. *laughs*
And that's the message of our shows. It seems like usually when a record comes out, there's a different
slant on what it is we're talking about on stage. It's almost like a different target. Alien Youth
was targeting the church - radical Christianity and living it out - and this album isn't targeting
that same audience. But I think if Collide hadn't been signed to a mainstream label and
"Savior" hadn't gone to mainstream radio, had the same album cover, same record, same everything,
then there would have been a lot less people saying "Oh you guys are changing and selling out." It's
just the fact that you can buy it and it says 'Lava Records' on it, y'know? So it's a little unfortunate
in terms of that. But the annoying thing in that is, even with Alien Youth, so much of the focus
on Alien Youth - live shows, website, Bible studies - you don't need to live your life
because of something someone else is telling you to do, you need to live your life by what the Bible says.
You need to pursue God. But what's really annoying to me is everybody was so into that message but then we don't
take that and do anything with it. It's like we're all "Amen-ing" but we don't know, "No, no, that applies
to you and you're not doing that!" It's not really that different, we're just singing about different
things, it's not a big deal. And it just seems like it hasn't had the impact that we really wanted it
It is different. And this is also a part of some of the things we talked about on Alien Youth,
It's definitely different because I think most believers in our country don't really have a real alone
time with the Lord and don't really know what it's like. And I'm not saying it's just like that with
everyone else, it's hard for me too, but it's just always been my issue in life. How do I pursue
God and just find that time in His presence so that I'm changing? And what most all of us do
is that we just don't do that, but we go to church on Sunday and Wednesday night and we feel good.
*laughs* And we learn enough on Sunday that we kind of change as the year goes on. We start to not
curse when we're around our friends or watch nudie movies or whatever it is you're trying to change
when you become a Christian. And eventually you just kind of enter into the Christian lifestyle after
several years but you've not really done anything about it and just kinda go to church. And you worship
and feel good for the rest of the week. So you can't do that on the road because you're never at church.
The thing I usually tell people is really the way that we keep ourselves grounded and on fire for God
and zealous is just the same way that we're supposed to be keeping that way even if we're at home --
and that's just disciplining yourself to spend time with the Lord and ask Him to change you.
And there is a family atmosphere within the group where we can challenge each other and worship together --
whatever we want to do -- there's definitely that. But you definitely do miss what I think church is really about.
Church life is about your brothers and sisters - the family of God worshipping together, being there for
each other. You miss all of those things. But you can still have the sharpening with each other in
your own relationships if you want that. We've always been struggling and striving to have that within
ourselves. Again, I think it's a misunderstanding of what church is supposed to be. Church isn't "I hear
a really great message on Sunday!" *laughs* I say that and people get offended, but if they hear how I mean
it, it's really not offensive. But there is hardly any church in America on Sunday where I'm gonna hear something
that I've not heard or don't know, you know what I mean? Now they may quote Hebrew and stuff, I don't
know all that or claim to know everything about the Bible, but pretty much anything they're going
to talk about... I mean I've read the Bible and have been to church since I was a kid so I know
all that... NOT that you shouldn't be going to church!! But I'm saying it's not about that
teaching, y'know? It's about worshipping together and your brothers in Christ. It's about living
for God all week long as a family, y'know? Don't make me start preaching... *laughs*
Yeah. You know what? Even while we were doing it, I'm like, "This is stupid, I should
not be doing this." "Maybe this is dumb?" Y'know? In the end, I really like it. Uh... I don't
think anyone else really likes it though? *laughs* John: I like it, I think it's funny.
I think it's hilarious! Have you heard the original? John: Yeah, have you?
Yeah, they sent us a CD with twelve songs and when we listened to it, I really didn't like anything.
The reason we chose it is because Korey said "Hey, listen to this chorus!" Cause it says "Stand!" and
the everybody goes "Stand up! Stand up!" and she said "We can do that because everybody can scream
it really loud! And I was like, "Alright, let's do it..." And even when we were there I'm thinking
we shouldn't be doing this, I shouldn't be doing this whole project. But in the end I love it.
I think it's super cool. And I think it's hilarious that it starts really pretty and then it's like
ripping your head. But I haven't talked to anybody except for like two people that like it.
Everybody else is kinda like "What?!" You know what the problem is? They called it Veggie Rocks.
They shouldn't have. They should have called it Veggie Pop. Because it's not a rock album.
It's like two of them are rock songs. They made it sound to us like it's going to be a rock
album. When they got it, I think everybody was a little bit flabbergasted! *laughs* Veggie Pop Rocks
is what they should've called it!
I think "Locked In A Cage" is my favorite of all time of ours. But my favorite to play live...
The newer ones are so much more fun to play live because they're heavier, y'know? I really love
playing "Savior." Yeah, for right now I'm gonna go with "Savior" because I'm out and I can't think.
I used to really like playing "Stronger," which is not a popular song, but it's really fast.
That used to be my favorite probably... That was really fun to play. *smiles*
Kevin: "Locked In A Cage" was the first song I heard from you guys.
Cool. We're gonna maybe redo that song on our next record.
I don't know. It'll probably be a long time. John: Really?
Yeah, because "Savior" is just out. They work these mainstream songs... I can't believe
how long they work these songs. Because in the Christian market you put it out and in a couple
weeks it's done really well. It's like [in mainstream], it could be on the charts for sixth months.
Like Switchfoot - they worked that song for like ten months or something. I just can't
imagine that. So we've got awhile. And it's weird because it's like we're starting all over, y'know?
We're getting paid like three hundred dollars to do a show and that won't even like pay for our
driver, y'know? You're starting over for an audience who hasn't heard of you. It's pretty unusual.
You're opening up for bands... it's pretty weird but I like it, it's cool. John: It's like a rebirth.
It is, it's just like that. Except we're old, y'know? *laughs* We're not nineteen anymore! It's all
I haven't heard too many recently as I would like to is the problem. Y'know, I used to be a really
big Pax fan. I really love Pax's first record. And I love Benjamin Gate's first
record. That kind of shows you where I'm at with Christian music. I'm about three years, four
years away. And Benjamin Gate's not doing anything right now. I mean, I do like Pillar, I
thought that Fireproof was a really good record. I don't even really know the new, new
bands. Like Staple and those really heavy bands? I actually like a lot of them but I've not heard
enough of it to say. Y'know, I heard Demon Hunter for the first time... *smiles* That's
heavy. I mean that's heavy. But I like it actually. I was kind of into it, but
I only heard one song.
No, man, I talked way too much! *laughs*
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